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	<title>Comments on: A Chartered Teacher Debate</title>
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	<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/</link>
	<description>The Online Diary of a Chartered Teacher on Secondment</description>
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		<title>By: mvass</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3437</link>
		<dc:creator>mvass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3437</guid>
		<description>Hi Fearghal,

I totally agree with what you&#039;re saying here. Thanks for bringing the debate to my attention on twitter. I&#039;ve certainly managed to clarify my own thoughts as a result of writing this posts and reading the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Fearghal,</p>
<p>I totally agree with what you&#8217;re saying here. Thanks for bringing the debate to my attention on twitter. I&#8217;ve certainly managed to clarify my own thoughts as a result of writing this posts and reading the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: mvass</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3436</link>
		<dc:creator>mvass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3436</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this comment, Nick. The blog post has raised a lot of issues - there&#039;s so many conflicting viewpoints around. For example, in the original &#039;CODE OF PRACTICE ON THE ROLE OF THE CHARTERED TEACHER&#039;

http://www.snct.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Appendix_2.16

states:

&quot;The Chartered Teacher remains primarily a classroom teacher and at no point should the Chartered Teacher be regarded as part of the school’s management structure. Therefore, the contribution which could be made must be consistent with the duties of a teacher as set out in the SNCT Handbook, should maintain the primacy of the teacher’s focus in learning and teaching and must be both realistic and capable of being delivered within the 35 hour working week and a school’s Working Time Agreement. It must also reflect the Chartered Teacher’s own expertise which will take account of their teaching experience, interests, Continuous Professional Development (CPD) and programmes of study undertaken.&quot;

This is seems to be saying something quite different from what&#039;s mentioned in your comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this comment, Nick. The blog post has raised a lot of issues &#8211; there&#8217;s so many conflicting viewpoints around. For example, in the original &#8216;CODE OF PRACTICE ON THE ROLE OF THE CHARTERED TEACHER&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.snct.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Appendix_2.16" rel="nofollow">http://www.snct.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Appendix_2.16</a></p>
<p>states:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Chartered Teacher remains primarily a classroom teacher and at no point should the Chartered Teacher be regarded as part of the school’s management structure. Therefore, the contribution which could be made must be consistent with the duties of a teacher as set out in the SNCT Handbook, should maintain the primacy of the teacher’s focus in learning and teaching and must be both realistic and capable of being delivered within the 35 hour working week and a school’s Working Time Agreement. It must also reflect the Chartered Teacher’s own expertise which will take account of their teaching experience, interests, Continuous Professional Development (CPD) and programmes of study undertaken.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is seems to be saying something quite different from what&#8217;s mentioned in your comment?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Tait</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3432</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Tait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3432</guid>
		<description>Just found this http://www.ssta.org.uk/news.php?item.132.15 

The Code avoids the use of the word &quot;duties&quot; but attempts inadequately to hide this by the use of terms such as

    • &quot;Brings a leadership role in leading learning and supporting colleagues&quot;
    • &quot;Could introduce focused projects&quot;
    • &quot;Might make a distinctive contribution&quot;

In particular, the Code lays down &quot;Professional Actions&quot; which include:

    • Supporting, advising and mentoring colleagues
    • Leading curricular change and assessment
    • Leading in-service on research work or educational development

All of the above are duties for Principal Teachers. The whole reasoning behind the code should be obvious to anyone who has any knowledge of what is happening in Scottish secondary schools at this moment. The work suggested in the Code will remove CTs from the classroom for a substantial amount of the working week, in total contravention of the concept of Chartered Teacher status.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just found this <a href="http://www.ssta.org.uk/news.php?item.132.15" rel="nofollow">http://www.ssta.org.uk/news.php?item.132.15</a> </p>
<p>The Code avoids the use of the word &#8220;duties&#8221; but attempts inadequately to hide this by the use of terms such as</p>
<p>    • &#8220;Brings a leadership role in leading learning and supporting colleagues&#8221;<br />
    • &#8220;Could introduce focused projects&#8221;<br />
    • &#8220;Might make a distinctive contribution&#8221;</p>
<p>In particular, the Code lays down &#8220;Professional Actions&#8221; which include:</p>
<p>    • Supporting, advising and mentoring colleagues<br />
    • Leading curricular change and assessment<br />
    • Leading in-service on research work or educational development</p>
<p>All of the above are duties for Principal Teachers. The whole reasoning behind the code should be obvious to anyone who has any knowledge of what is happening in Scottish secondary schools at this moment. The work suggested in the Code will remove CTs from the classroom for a substantial amount of the working week, in total contravention of the concept of Chartered Teacher status.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: mvass</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3431</link>
		<dc:creator>mvass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3431</guid>
		<description>I think we both hold very opposing views as to the value of achieving Chartered Teacher status, Andrew. Although the financial reward is wecolmed, it certainly wasn&#039;t the driving force in embarking on the 6 yr journey. I actually decided to sign up for all the reasons you mention about why people want to study .... for interest. 

And here was the opportunity to achieve a recognised academic qualification at the same time.

Thankfully, I was lucky in that the school management team valued the contribution that I was able to make as a result of undertaking the various modules. I was actively encouraged to share the learning with others - wee bits of action research that had worked for me in my classroom.

I hope I&#039;m influencing others even more now in my role as ICT Curriculum Support Officer - all as a result of my C.T. studies ;-)
 
It&#039;s heartening that the SNCT have issued guidance on the role of Chartered Teachers. I think the contribution that Chartered Teachers are able to make to learning because of their expertise in their own interest needs to be recognised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we both hold very opposing views as to the value of achieving Chartered Teacher status, Andrew. Although the financial reward is wecolmed, it certainly wasn&#8217;t the driving force in embarking on the 6 yr journey. I actually decided to sign up for all the reasons you mention about why people want to study &#8230;. for interest. </p>
<p>And here was the opportunity to achieve a recognised academic qualification at the same time.</p>
<p>Thankfully, I was lucky in that the school management team valued the contribution that I was able to make as a result of undertaking the various modules. I was actively encouraged to share the learning with others &#8211; wee bits of action research that had worked for me in my classroom.</p>
<p>I hope I&#8217;m influencing others even more now in my role as ICT Curriculum Support Officer &#8211; all as a result of my C.T. studies <img src='http://mvass.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It&#8217;s heartening that the SNCT have issued guidance on the role of Chartered Teachers. I think the contribution that Chartered Teachers are able to make to learning because of their expertise in their own interest needs to be recognised.</p>
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		<title>By: AB</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3420</link>
		<dc:creator>AB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3420</guid>
		<description>I think I just find the term &#039;Chartered Teacher&#039; quite curious. I was a &#039;Lead Care Assistant&#039; in care for the elderly in a previous line of work. I no longer work in that job, so wouldn&#039;t consider retaining the title. Therefore, I wouldn&#039;t think it suitable to still retain a title of Chartered Teacher when no longer classroom teaching. That was the only point I think I was trying to make. I do think it is unfortunate that the term has been rolled in with the M.Ed - it&#039;s a masters qualification that has been granted by an academic institution. There are presumably some in education that have a Masters, but don&#039;t carry the CT title? What of those that have achieved higher than Masters? Should PhD&#039;s in education recieve an &#039;ultra-chartered&#039; status? I&#039;d always understood the introduction of the role of CT as a way to encoruage good teachers to stay in the classroom, and not pursue careers in management as the only way to earn more money in education? I&#039;m obviously happy to proved wrong if I&#039;m off the mark here. 

I would differentiate two things also about my thoughts on CT status - if I were still in the classroom, my reason to pursue CT status would be entirely financial. I would wish to stay in the classroom, and receive a higher income for my ability, therefore affecting my pension. This in my mind is a totally different subject from wishing to pursue a higher level of academic qualification however - this would be for interest, rather than financial gain? Please don&#039;t confuse my questions about the role of CT with my interest in people studying. When I study, it&#039;s for interest, but if I were to pursue CT status, like Nick, my motivation would be financial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I just find the term &#8216;Chartered Teacher&#8217; quite curious. I was a &#8216;Lead Care Assistant&#8217; in care for the elderly in a previous line of work. I no longer work in that job, so wouldn&#8217;t consider retaining the title. Therefore, I wouldn&#8217;t think it suitable to still retain a title of Chartered Teacher when no longer classroom teaching. That was the only point I think I was trying to make. I do think it is unfortunate that the term has been rolled in with the M.Ed &#8211; it&#8217;s a masters qualification that has been granted by an academic institution. There are presumably some in education that have a Masters, but don&#8217;t carry the CT title? What of those that have achieved higher than Masters? Should PhD&#8217;s in education recieve an &#8216;ultra-chartered&#8217; status? I&#8217;d always understood the introduction of the role of CT as a way to encoruage good teachers to stay in the classroom, and not pursue careers in management as the only way to earn more money in education? I&#8217;m obviously happy to proved wrong if I&#8217;m off the mark here. </p>
<p>I would differentiate two things also about my thoughts on CT status &#8211; if I were still in the classroom, my reason to pursue CT status would be entirely financial. I would wish to stay in the classroom, and receive a higher income for my ability, therefore affecting my pension. This in my mind is a totally different subject from wishing to pursue a higher level of academic qualification however &#8211; this would be for interest, rather than financial gain? Please don&#8217;t confuse my questions about the role of CT with my interest in people studying. When I study, it&#8217;s for interest, but if I were to pursue CT status, like Nick, my motivation would be financial.</p>
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		<title>By: mvass</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3418</link>
		<dc:creator>mvass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3418</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what you mean about me moving school? 

Falkirk Council are reimbursed after they pay me my C.T. &#039;top up&#039; salary, so it&#039;s not coming out of their budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you mean about me moving school? </p>
<p>Falkirk Council are reimbursed after they pay me my C.T. &#8216;top up&#8217; salary, so it&#8217;s not coming out of their budget.</p>
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		<title>By: mvass</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3417</link>
		<dc:creator>mvass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3417</guid>
		<description>So you&#039;re to blame for the stramash, Iain :-) 

Thanks for starting the debate, though.

 I love the analogy to taking away &#039;Highers&#039; and &#039;SFR&#039; in your comment ... a dangerous road to go down right enough!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;re to blame for the stramash, Iain <img src='http://mvass.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Thanks for starting the debate, though.</p>
<p> I love the analogy to taking away &#8216;Highers&#8217; and &#8216;SFR&#8217; in your comment &#8230; a dangerous road to go down right enough!</p>
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		<title>By: mvass</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3416</link>
		<dc:creator>mvass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3416</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply, Nick. 

I&#039;m not convinced that councils will be able to move C.T.&#039;s to management duties. Leadership duties? - I&#039;d welcome that, but that&#039;s another debate :-)

 Good luck with doing the &#039;CT stuff&#039; to top up your pension before you retire - but why not do it now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply, Nick. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not convinced that councils will be able to move C.T.&#8217;s to management duties. Leadership duties? &#8211; I&#8217;d welcome that, but that&#8217;s another debate <img src='http://mvass.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> Good luck with doing the &#8216;CT stuff&#8217; to top up your pension before you retire &#8211; but why not do it now?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Tait</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3409</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Tait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3409</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you can ever take away CT status, they have paid for it and spent the unpaid time doing it ! 

If CTs accept this then, phew where does it end ?

Remember if you try to move school, it will be cheaper to employ another suitably qualified teacher on the maingrade.  

Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you can ever take away CT status, they have paid for it and spent the unpaid time doing it ! </p>
<p>If CTs accept this then, phew where does it end ?</p>
<p>Remember if you try to move school, it will be cheaper to employ another suitably qualified teacher on the maingrade.  </p>
<p>Nick</p>
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		<title>By: Iain Hallahan</title>
		<link>http://mvass.net/2009/09/30/a-chartered-teacher-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3408</link>
		<dc:creator>Iain Hallahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mvass.net/?p=1854#comment-3408</guid>
		<description>Do you know, I kind of missed this whole flare-up at the time, despite the fact that it seemed to be me that caused it in the first place!!! The original tweet &quot;Do we encourage our best teachers to become CTs, to do research to apply for promoted posts or do we not want to lose them?&quot; was from me sitting in a seminar at SLF, and wasn&#039;t really about CT/non CT at all, it was about managers denying good teaching staff development opportunities because it made it that bit easier to keep them in that particular job/class/school.

As for CT status being taken away from those not in the class - I think it might be a dangerous road to start down. I mean, if that&#039;s OK, where do you stop? What about SFR? Should that get withdrawn if you&#039;re not teaching for a certain amount of time? That could end up being another pressure for those post probationers finding it well-nigh impossible to secure themselves a position - bad enough the way it is, imagine adding that pressure to it. I&#039;m sure Head Teachers don&#039;t lose their qualified teacher status despite rarely teaching a class for years on end (most of them anyway). Anyway, once you&#039;ve gained a qualification, I think it&#039;s only fair you get to keep it - I doubt I could pass Higher Physics now, but does that really mean I shouldn&#039;t list it on my CV? I worked hard enough to pass it after all.

All food for thought anyway. I shall follow with interest (despite not being a CT.....!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know, I kind of missed this whole flare-up at the time, despite the fact that it seemed to be me that caused it in the first place!!! The original tweet &#8220;Do we encourage our best teachers to become CTs, to do research to apply for promoted posts or do we not want to lose them?&#8221; was from me sitting in a seminar at SLF, and wasn&#8217;t really about CT/non CT at all, it was about managers denying good teaching staff development opportunities because it made it that bit easier to keep them in that particular job/class/school.</p>
<p>As for CT status being taken away from those not in the class &#8211; I think it might be a dangerous road to start down. I mean, if that&#8217;s OK, where do you stop? What about SFR? Should that get withdrawn if you&#8217;re not teaching for a certain amount of time? That could end up being another pressure for those post probationers finding it well-nigh impossible to secure themselves a position &#8211; bad enough the way it is, imagine adding that pressure to it. I&#8217;m sure Head Teachers don&#8217;t lose their qualified teacher status despite rarely teaching a class for years on end (most of them anyway). Anyway, once you&#8217;ve gained a qualification, I think it&#8217;s only fair you get to keep it &#8211; I doubt I could pass Higher Physics now, but does that really mean I shouldn&#8217;t list it on my CV? I worked hard enough to pass it after all.</p>
<p>All food for thought anyway. I shall follow with interest (despite not being a CT&#8230;..!)</p>
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